The conversation about the condition of Polish design with Krystyna Łuczak-Surówka and Zuzanna Skalska, published in the first issue of “Architecture Snob”, raised some high eyebrows and a lot of emotions. After more than a year, we meet again to find out if anything has changed and to exchange some hopeful gazes into the future.
Marcin Szczelina: I am under the impression that the issues around the design fairs, a topic which we discussed in the first issue of Architecture Snob, have deepened and expanded.
Krystyna Łuczak-Surówka: And what is more, the situation will not improve. Some of the events are entangled in the city’s politics in which they take place while the others are purely commercial. These types of events function within a frame of a company development strategy, not a brand building strategy. Assuming that Warsaw Home fair will be the ‘second Milan’ is a highly unrealistic utopia. There is a lack of brand awareness and local context – it reads better to be the first Nadarzyn near Warsaw (instead of Milan). The fair itself looks good because of the exhibitors’ efforts, who despite the organizational torments, do their best. But then again if they want to present themselves, they have no alternative. Organizational problems result primarily from the extremely commercial approach and the lack of respect for those who give the event the identity – the exhibitors.
After our critical exchange in the previous interview, Warsaw Home invited me to cooperate during the fair. I could remain on the critics’ side and keep pointing out mistakes, or I could choose to dive in and build a long-term strategy in the spirit of sustainable development. I won a multi-stage competition for the Artistic Director of the fair and I hoped it was the sign of the will for change. Unfortunately, Warsaw Home, like most events in Poland, is not ready for making changes.
KŁ-S: I was at the fairgrounds the day before the opening, because I was working with one of the companies that had a booth there. Traditionally, the last day is the most intensive one, you stay up late to get everything done. Suddenly we heard the information that the venue is closing at 6 PM, and if this deadline is exceeded, you have to pay extra for each hour per square meter.
Zuzanna Skalska: From what I see, Warsaw Home had a different business model in mind than fairs and exhibitions. Maybe this type of activity is to them like those small sections of the contract, like in low-cost airlines.
And this is just one of the most debatable practices. The disrespect for the exhibitors was most poignant. Where is the logic in that, since the event exists because of the exhibitors?
KŁ-S: Keep in mind how many of the really big companies left the event. They showed up in the first years, but after financial blackmail, they chose other places.
ZS: The basic question is who is the addressee of all Polish design events? Who visits this type of fairs or festivals? From advertisements, articles and reports, I conclude that Warsaw Home was more like the Woonbeurs event in Amsterdam, which I remember from the late nineties. At that time, they were mainly visited by women living in large cities and aspiring to the middle class.
KŁ-S: Marcin, you made an attempt. I respect that a lot, but in retrospect, it was a bitter experience. Do you think this event can be saved?
There is always a chance but to build anything, you need to keep qualities such as respect, honesty and communication in mind. In reality, I was faced with the lack of any will to reach agreement, the messages in the form of demands and constant disinformation. I find most disappointing the attitude of the founder of Warsaw Home, Katarzyna Ptak. She built the prestige of the event, based it on the good will of Polish designers and companies. In the critical moment she announced that she is no longer involved in the event, however, her new initiative appeared on every badge and banners on the premises of Warsaw Home as a partner of the fair. There are many such anecdotes and stories around her persona. Many designers refused to discuss Warsaw Home because they clearly want to cut themselves off from this event. The problem appears not only in Nadrzyn, the same is true of 4 Design Days in Katowice. Let us not forget already legendary social media entries by Filip Springer who wrote about not being paid for moderating discussions. I really believe that you can organize a large event in Poland on healthy business grounds. I hope that the attempts to change the paradigm of events will eventually reach the right people, the right organizers. We are really in a different place of reality so business has to change as well. However, I have a question for you about the alternatives? Do we have any in Poland at all?
ZS: And do we really have to organize fairs in Poland?
Warsaw Home was crowded, so there is demand.
KŁ-S: Poland attitude comes down to a statement: “somehow it will work out”. We live in a country of very hardworking and talented people, but we do not attach importance to reliability.
ZS: Because there was a pandemic and we were waiting a long time for any event to actually happen. A thirsty person will drink almost anything. When someone asks me what is the main feature of Polish design, my answer is – provisional. Every year in China, 10,000 students graduate from design studies. China needs thousands of designers because the strategy of the Chinese communist party is based on building global brands in which designers play a key role. In Poland, this train departed as early as in 2015. The question is, what is the point of native design at local fairs at a time when e-commerce is taking over the everyday life of buying design products and international fairs are becoming a great adventure. Unless such an event works solely as a sales tool for large international brands and the advantage is you can buy international products on the spot. Only then will it still make sense. But in general, let’s not make a pitchfork out of the needle.
However, there should be some limits. Why is there no solidarity in the Polish design community and one solid front against bad practices? One company resigns from the fair, but is replaced by another and that sustains the bad organizers.
ZS: Because some people talk and don’t do, while others do and don’t talk. There is no design community – at least I do not see one in Poland anymore.
KŁ-S: It is the same as with the plagiarism at the design exhibition at the National Museum, which I talked about in the previous issue of “Architecture Snob”. Till this day, nothing has been done about it. When I spoke publicly about the problem, I thought there would be solidarity and we would do something together, but all there was, was this ‘you do it’ attitude. And in the end it turns out that I am the bad one, the one who only criticizes.
ZS: I withdrew from participating in design fairs, not only in Poland. I am also resigning from the Advisory Board at Dutch Design Week. I love this event, but my contribution to the organization is not contributing to my personal development anymore. The Netherlands, and the city of Eindhoven in particular, is in tune with the contemporary times and as a result design, as something unique, has actually become a natural element of its everyday life. The city now focuses more on new ideas like building experience or new concepts of places in the city, common to the creative community and business. And that is where the investments are made. The traditional design, not only in Poland, is facing a metaphorical wall – the designers do not know what to do next. Likewise, business doesn’t know what to do with classic designers too. Still, many things have not changed at Polish academies of art. We leave School of Form in the new academic year 2022/2023 with a completely new attitude. The general paradigm is changing and design has to realize that it is also undergoing a gigantic transformation. It is no longer about how to design the next couch that will sell, but how to solve social problems. How to create non-violent places? How to design roads through which you can cycle without collisions? How to design safe parks after dark? How to design a small urban transport rental system so that nobody will trip over it? How to design an education or health system that will be in complete disarray after a pandemic? There are a lot of questions, and we have to move all our creativity to other areas of life. Sofas, mirrors, lamps, chairs and tables are the things of the past. We have produced so many of them that you will be able to buy them in second-hand stores for the next 100 years. Let’s put them in the museums, instead of the contemporary design festivals.
Are the most celebrated designers aware of these processes?
ZS: Celebrated by whom? If by the media and the press, they are probably not aware of either of what we are talking about right now. If we are talking about the designers who are working for the business and industry of 4.0, then the statement explains itself.
KŁ-S: Oftentimes, when I talk with the designers, they are eager to talk about pro-social values or ecology, but then I look at their projects and there is a split of two realities. A beautiful story does not translate into solutions. It is only a fashionable marketing tool to boost sales of the product. And the product itself has a completely different identity. I don’t know what to do. I tried to argue once, but it does not result in anything constructive.
ZS: Greenwashing is a big problem for both original designers and unaware companies.
Especially now the majority of the companies communicate that eco and green qualities are part of their identity. Often it is shaped as an aggressive message from a famous designer or a brand. But in the end, it is the business that matters.
KŁ-S: But even the business does not last.
ZS: Many designers complain that people do not want to buy their products or that no company is interested in implementing their ideas. This is because things just don’t meet the needs of the consumers or the aesthetics of the market at a given time.
KŁ-S: The key word is “need”. Our aesthetic preferences vary, but our needs are mostly the same, although they change with the ages. In design, I have always been fascinated by how interdisciplinary this discipline is and how much knowledge it requires.
Not to sound too pessimistic, do you see anything good that has happened in Polish design in recent years despite all of what we just discussed?
ZS: A lot of designers gave up their profession. They disappeared from the market and started doing something good elsewhere. The good thing is that they don’t waste resources.
KŁ-S: I am optimistic by nature and I always see a glass half full. There is this saying about designing in the belief that we are changing the world to be better. A well-designed space is not meant to arouse admiration, but allows you to flourish. When people were locked at homes due to a pandemic, they started to pay more attention to the space they live in, which translated into an interior boom. Just as companies realized that some employees would not return to the offices, they began redesigning their spaces. This phenomenon is not positive in itself, but it is optimistic that people have paid attention to what they can get out of applying design: not pretty fancy items, but a space that matters. Interior designers have their hands full now, but unfortunately I have the impression that this initial enthusiasm and reflection is slowly wearing off.
ZS: The pandemic did not change anything, it only speeded up the development of many areas and subjects which we have been around for a long time. We thought about how not to waste our lives on work and commuting, how to spend more time with friends or family. Everyone has asked different questions, but the common thing is that the pandemic has produced real answers. This is the first global crisis since World War II, an event which also redefined the reality of that time. In a sense, this is a crisis even bigger than World War II, because the war did not affect absolutely all countries in the world. The current redefinition of reality will continue and we must be in contact with this process. I often wonder why we want so much to go back to what was. The only thing we learn from history is that we don’t learn from history. My generation should take responsibility for the next generations, because we still remember the old world. Taking care of one’s own welfare must be abandoned in favor of thinking about the welfare of the generations that will follow. If we choose the wrong direction right now, all civilization will end up badly. We have to stop thinking about the “more” prerogative. In a global perspective, any other individual pursuit seems selfish. If you have hot tap water, a roof over your head and fresh bread every day, you really have a lot. A lot of people do not have that luxury.
KŁ-S: The desire to have more and more has led to the fact that Poles are one of the most indebted nations in the world. I am not even talking about mortgage loans, which are somewhat pragmatic and driven by the need to have a roof over your head. People get into debt for the most ridiculous things. I do not think that a washing machine is unnecessary, but if you have a working one, why take a loan for a new one?
ZS: Even a broken one should be repaired instead of replaced.
The problem is that repairs often cost more than a new washing machine.
KŁ-S: Let’s face it, the producers designed this situation. People want more, which influences quality. We are responsible for what we buy.
ZS: This is the result of design trends. The narrative was that we must have something new, and then even newer things. And laws do not keep up with the changes in the industry. In the old optics – which are still in power – it was the items, not achievements, that gave us social status. This is still the case in Poland: if you do not own a car, flat or house, you have not been successful. This way of thinking is devalued and we should not continue it.
KŁ-S: Advertisements shout “cheaper, even more cheaper!”. This makes people believe they should consume and when they cannot afford it, they take a loan.
And are switching to pessimism again. You really don’t see any valuable phenomena, projects or names in Polish design in recent years?
ZS: I don’t know if you know, but many young girls cannot afford to buy sanitary pads, which are taxed almost like luxury goods. In Poland, the rate on sanitary products like tampons has been reduced from July 1, 2020 from 8 to 5 percent, but it is still not zero. Young girls often do not leave the house out of shame because they cannot afford these essentials. Design can be a response to such problems: like the problem of menstrual poverty. This is how pink boxes were created, in which you can leave sanitary pads and tampons for people in need. For me, this is an example of a good project that is happening in Poland and comes from a young generation that is not invited to any design fairs and will not be written about by any colorful lifestyle newspapers. I am very happy that cities are starting to approach many things differently, that there are activists who address the issues through design. I really liked the graphic design of the Strajk font, which was created from banners from the Women’s Strike and made available for free. You may like it or not, but the entire InPost system is perfectly designed, which has completely changed the way we use postal services. To me, this is the power of design. In Poland, it often ends up with prototypes. Rafał Brzoska was lucky: he had an idea and he met brilliant people who were able to implement it. A very successful Polish project that changed our daily functioning is also BLIK and Autopay.
KŁ-S: I like my work for the fact that I have contact with young people, thanks to which my optimism is always recharging. I am impressed by the way young people seem to be dealing in a fresh way with the topics that are already considered by older generations of designers. This gives me hope that we are not on the verge of a deadlock after all and maybe it will be fine. There are many great projects, and young designers often win competitions and open calls for projects in the cities’ spaces, also abroad, which is not that simple.
KŁ-S: I like my work for the fact that I have contact with young people, thanks to which my optimism is fueled. I am impressed by the way young people look at them and the way in which they seem to be dealing with the same topics differently. This gives me hope that we are not on the verge after all and maybe it will be fine. There are many great projects, and young designers often win tenders for projects in cities, also abroad, which is not that simple.
ZS: I agree. I just learned that PESA has designed a hydrogen locomotive. This is news on a global scale, but in Poland we do not recognize it as design. Meanwhile, it is enough to look at the world around us in the subway, in the office, in the office, on the bus or at the bus stop and we are every day at the “open-air design exhibition”, as Zdzisław Sobierajski likes to say. Someone designed our surroundings. So in one word: I am very proud of what Polish designers are capable of.
So we have a good design, but we do not know how to effectively communicate it?
ZS: Exactly. We took the wrong path as we went up the hill. Instead of following the development trail, we followed the trail of the event weeks of design and Oscars for aesthetics. We still go this path and do beauty contests, while the West is headed towards a completely different area of interest.
KŁ-S: One of my graduate students wrote that when she started her studies, she dreamed of having a famous name, and now she wants to design things that will serve people every day. I immediately made sure that everyone heard this sentence, because it is very important. It gives me the feeling that being a professor pays back. The method of learning by heart is still a standard and it is a problem: such information is forgotten after a week or two. The schools in Poland are teaching how to pass exams – not acquire knowledge. It is different at art academies, but I am not surprised that students find it difficult to adjust. Sometimes they are even afraid to talk because no one had respected their opinion before. Fortunately, some of these people are really creative and take advantage of it as soon as they are given a chance. More than once I have tried to attract various magazines to write about young people and their interesting ideas. Each time it ended the same: the editor-in-chief was yes, but the advertising department called and said there was no purpose in publishing such things. There must be a product list with prices for each item, which was not the purpose of my proposition at all.
ZS: But there are exceptions to that rule. Noizz magazine has its plebiscite called Changes. In the design category they did not nominate any item but instead an event called Bal Architektek – an initiative for the equal rights of women in the industry. The background of the event was to highlight the waste of porcelain Glitch LAB and a blog about architecture and spatial management Peing. These are the things for me that should be recognized as design. When someone asked me a few years ago about the future of the kitchen, I replied: “Pyszne.pl” – a Polish website like Uber Eats. Why? Because our approach to cooking is changing – we cook more and more for fun, as a hobby or to discover new things. Once the cheapest dinner option was to eat in canteens, now we have kebabs, hamburgers or a sophisticated box diet.
KŁ-S: The only question is to what extent the design industry is really interested in such issues.
ZS: It is not, because it is still fixated on creating things instead of creating a better world.
What would be the way to change it?
KŁ-S: I am doing what I can do best: I teach students and I feel fulfilled by this task. It gives me wings when I see that someone has taken something out of my class and works with it. I teach the history of design, but I always say in class that students don’t have to remember dates or names. As long as they know what the project is about and the purpose behind it, they will leave with a good grade. I teach my students to understand and to see, not just to look. From history, you can learn not only successes and failures, but also certain mechanisms. But to be honest, things that are happening outside of the university hurt me a lot. The scale of disappointment I mentioned in the previous issue of the magazine, has not changed. And the pandemic has nothing to do with it. I get involved with things that seem interesting to me and that can serve a meaningful purpose, but I don’t see the general situation to be improving, as some are eager to admit.
ZS: All the power went to startups now: games, applications, energy, AI – that’s fashionable at the moment. Design is no longer sexy. At the postgraduate studies of Designing the Future at SWPS, Piotr Płoszajski, during one of his lectures, asked a very interesting question: “would Fryderyk Chopin win the Chopin Competition today?”. It turns out he might as well not win, because pianos are different today, the way of playing has changed and the audience expects different quality. I wonder if top designers would pass a BA exam in design today – they are not familiar with coding, robotics or new media. I guess we often do not expect our classmates to do what we expect from students. Reality changed, the word design can be attached to almost everything – financial design, medical design, feminist design. And that is wonderful. Our generation does not understand this, but a sea of possibilities is opening up for today’s students. If we do not go with the wave of the actions and interests of young people – we will end up on a desert island.